"The Proposal: We need a distinction on the profile for degrees:
Type A: Time Served (The Timer)
Type B: Community Verified (Evidence uploaded + Community Vote)"
This already exists. Anyone who prefer to have their time-based black belt degrees verified by the community, can just choose "I was promoted by someone" and then write "Time served" in the promoter field. That will trigger community verification for the degree.
"Bobby,
Fair play. I will stop calling it "your system." 🤝
To be clear: I don't care about the IBJJF. I care about legitimate promotion.
1. The "Friction" Factor My point about Stan Schmidt wasn't about standardized testing. It was about friction. He had to fly to Japan and face the masters. The rank had value because it was hard-fought. A SQL script running at midnight is the exact opposite of hard-fought.
2. My Personal Stance I am currently eligible for my 1st degree right now. I could click the button today. I won't. I will wait until my instructor—who I do not pay—decides I am ready and bestows it. That is the only way it carries weight.
3. The Solution: The Ronin Protocol Since you offered to back me, let's solve Patrick’s "Toxic Gym" issue without resorting to participation trophies.
The Proposal: We need a distinction on the profile for degrees:
Type A: Time Served (The Timer)
Type B: Community Verified (Evidence uploaded + Community Vote)
This allows "Ronins" (orphaned students) to be verified by the crowd, rather than just a clock.
How do we move this from a forum debate to a formal feature request?
Respect, Dalan"
I feel like we're going around in circles a little bit here. I think if you feel that receiving a stripe on your black belt for "time served" by a human, as opposed to a computer program, is the only legitimate way to progress in rank, then you should, by all means go and downvote everyone on here who has accepted this type of promotion.
If you don't think the IBJJF's computer time-based promotions are legit for similar reasons, then you should definitely go and downvote everyone who has accepted this type of promotion.
Right now, as Christian pointed out, we already have these two types of promotions, it's just that up until now, everyone seems fine with both types. If you don't like it, then downvoting is a very powerful way of making your opinion known.
Like I said, I'm completely fine with time-based promotions as it seems like it's the only consistent uniform standard in our art, which is different than other martial arts. It seems like you're not really advocating for any other standards other than the degree should be awarded by another human who received their black belt at some point in time (minimum 3 years?) before you did.
Just or of curiosity, what do you do if your instructor forgets your belt's anniversary? Do you remind him? After all, we're "not allowed" to ask for rank. I suppose if you're not planning on promoting anyone to bb yourself, maybe it doesn't matter. I know this is a different question entirely. Just throwing it out there for a little variety.
In an attempt to organize your argument in a more concise manner (correct me if I'm wrong) you are saying:
Current beltchecker system: participant has the option of claiming "time served" and is automatically approved. One would have to downvote this promotion if they don't agree.
Proposed (Ronin) system: participant can claim "time served," but it triggers a need to be voted on again, just like if you claim your degree from another human via the current system on beltchecker.
While I'm not an administrator of this site, it seems like that would be a fairly easy modification, all things considered. However, it seems like there would need to be a REASON to make this modification, because as of now, literally none of the thousands of participants on this site have contested it. From what I can tell, you're the first!
Not to go around again to the beginning of the circle, but I think if you began a movement of downvoting "time served" promotions, and enough people agreed with you, this would give the administrators a REASON to change the current system.
Then you and Johan can commiserate the joys of the aftermath of downvotes together.
"Bobby,
Fair play. I will stop calling it "your system." 🤝
To be clear: I don't care about the IBJJF. I care about legitimate promotion.
1. The "Friction" Factor My point about Stan Schmidt wasn't about standardized testing. It was about friction. He had to fly to Japan and face the masters. The rank had value because it was hard-fought. A SQL script running at midnight is the exact opposite of hard-fought.
2. My Personal Stance I am currently eligible for my 1st degree right now. I could click the button today. I won't. I will wait until my instructor—who I do not pay—decides I am ready and bestows it. That is the only way it carries weight.
3. The Solution: The Ronin Protocol Since you offered to back me, let's solve Patrick’s "Toxic Gym" issue without resorting to participation trophies.
The Proposal: We need a distinction on the profile for degrees:
Type A: Time Served (The Timer)
Type B: Community Verified (Evidence uploaded + Community Vote)
This allows "Ronins" (orphaned students) to be verified by the crowd, rather than just a clock.
How do we move this from a forum debate to a formal feature request?
Respect, Dalan"
Some simple solutions you might find less “toxic”.
1. Come to the realization that outside of centralized testing, there will always be an arbitrary nature to promotion. Too fast, too slow, sandbagging, etc.
2. Don’t use IBJJF or Belt Checker. Whether you’re getting promoted due to crossing the palm of your sensei, or your “loyalty” is all the payment needed, whining about people doing it differently than you won’t fix anything.
3. Don’t worry about tape on my belt. I’m sure after the time requirement is satisfied, I pass a referee test, I submit my First Aid/CPR, my academy stays registered, I have approved the rank of teammates, and everything in between that my first degree will mean as much to me via a certificate from Carlos as someone putting finger tape on my belt.
Let’s REALLY look at what the point of contention is- a loosely agreed upon ranking system inspired by a sash worn by Japanese kids swimming denoting “trained” vs “untrained” & a degree system from the board game Go. The belt doesn’t get any blacker and there are several world champions in their respective styles that don’t pursue rank, they are just as much a “master” (if not more) as the belt chaser.
